Stage 3 – Bargaining

By John on

What would you do to help the US win a WEG medal?  It never ceases to amaze me how far fans are willing to go to help their team be successful–whether from buying memorabilia to crazy superstitions and rituals.  In the Kubler-Ross grief model, our ‘bargaining stage’ of grief might go something like: I’d ride all winter without gloves and stirrups if it would get us back that silver medal.  However, I’m going to take a different approach to bargaining and use this post to look at one aspect of the US team right now–rider development.  How is rider development related to bargaining?  You tell me…or, better yet, tell me how much post titles on Eventing Nation really have anything to do with the posts.
For all the justifiable criticism at the USEF for a lack of attention to producing our next group of top riders, the USEF is spending a significant amount of money this year to send talented developing horses and riders to compete abroad at Boekelo and Pau.
Boekelo CCI3*: Right before the WEGs, I wrote that the USEF had made their Boekelo grant selections for four riders to compete at the Boekelo CCI3* in the Netherlands from October 14th to 17th.  

Will Faudree and Andromaque 
Doug Payne and Running Order 
Sinead Halpin and Manoir de Carneville 
Tiana Coudray and Ringwood Magister


Mark Phillips is in Gladstone this week working with Doug, Sinead, and Will today, Thursday, and Friday.  Those three will fly from JFK to Amsterdam on Saturday, where they will meet up with Tiana.  The Boekelo training grants cover travel as well as incentives based on final placings and involve a big investment in each pair.  

In my mind, the grants are important to giving the horses and riders (especially Doug and Tiana) international experience before we might call on them to compete at championships.  Two big advantages of grants is that they hopefully inspire better performances from riders to earn the grants and they reward the horse owners for their investment in our sport.  
One thing that might help the grants to have more impact is a more public application/awarding process.  I also would support giving grants based more on a structured competition performance than picks by selectors–perhaps a Boekelo grant competition series next summer?  Riders could apply at the beginning of the year and the USEF would then select around 10 potentially suitable pairs who could compete for points at two or three major spring and summer competitions and the final picks would be contingent on soundness.  One spot could even be reserved for a ‘Captain’s pick’ to be used if a great pair narrowly missed out on the points due to bad luck, etc.  
Boekelo is conveniently scheduled for the same weekend as Fair Hill, but Eventing Nation will be hearing from the US riders at Boekelo throughout the competition.  Sinead provides a great preview of the Boekelo pairs in her blog, so I’ll just let her introduce herself and her team mates:

From Sinead’s Blog: “[Manoir de Carneville] and I combined have the most experience in the group in our Advanced competitions together. Will has the most experience as a rider with his numerous 4 star and team competitions on his former advanced ride Antigua. His mare is absolutely amazing and has been completely solid in the past year or so that Will has had her. Doug and Running Order are new to the Advanced level but Doug has more time in the tack than most and has proven on countless horses that he can be competitive. This will be a big step for both “skinny” and Doug but worth the investment. Tiana and her beautiful grey horse have both won at the 3 star level and had some spotty competitions. She knows her horse very well and has every capability to win the thing if things go her way.”

Pau CCI4*: The USEF will also be awarding several short listers with grants to the Pau CCI4* from November 4th to 7th.  The final Pau selections have yet to be made, but names like Remington, Tipperary Liadhnan, Arthur, Leyland, and Stewie come to mind.  Look for everyone else on the east coast who is not going to Boekelo or Pau to head to Maryland for Fair Hill with the hopes that we will have much better weather than last year.  Laine’s blog mentions that the team might give Pau grants to other pairs if they are not all taken by the short listers, but I am skeptical that there will be any spots left for non-short-listers.  
The challenge with giving money is to figure out how to get the most bang for your buck.    What do you think is the most effective way to use money to develop riders in the US? 

Categories:

Eventing Nation, Ridiculous Commentary
  • CRD

    What is your opinion on Boyd's newest blog entry:
    http://boydandsilvamartin.blogspot.com/2010/10/reflections-on-my-first-weg-experience.html

    He basically disagrees with the general concensus I've heard. He thinks the TOP riders deserve financial support and it is essentially a waste of money to provide international experience to riders who are not ready to be top 10 at the 4star level. These 3star riders should be going to Galway, Rebecca Farm, Jersey Fresh, Fairhill, etc in his opinion...

    Thoughts?

    As a big fan of both Sinead Halpin and Doug Payne, I am pumped they are headed to Holland with financial support from the National Federation. I think Doug in particular will benefit greatly from the international exposure - to think he won't represent the US in the future (even near future possibly) is ridiculous. He rides beautifully in all 3 phases, has the business part down (have you seen how many horses he regularly takes to events??), and is competitive in nature.

  • equinedriver

    All I can say is that, "you've got to be kidding me". He's complaining he doesn't get enough $$ and the USEF is giving to much money to the young riders?

    This post only confirms for us how out of touch the BNR's are.....we are giving to much support to the young riders. RIGHT. And he had been the only one of the "Big Four" that I felt had come through..

  • AreaVI

    Did you notice that Grolsch is sponsoring Bokelo?

    Do you think we could get some Budweiser love in the states? I'd rename my horse "Silver Bullet" to get the Hop producers on board!

  • Anonymous

    Agree, CRD. If you look at many (not all) of the top riders, they have owners to financially help support the expenses. Many up and coming riders do not, and are the owners for the horses they are riding at said level. I feel that while money does need to be given to the top, you need to help develop the riders of the future. I dont think it is a waste of money to develop the future for the team.

  • CRD

    The fact Boyd is completely against the fact the US is giving travelling grants to four VERY worthy 'younger' riders is a very short-sighted and SELFISH view.... remember, I'm sure he has been offered a grant to Pau for Remington.

    I think the biggest issue in the US is the overall lack of funds available. Unlike the lottery funding system in the UK, there just isnt enough money to go around in the US.

    I don't think the right answer is to distribute the limited funds available only to the top 6-8 riders in the country - the Phillips and Karens won't be around forever.

    I think its great they are sending less inexperienced riders to Boekelo while also giving more international experience to some of the top horses/riders in the country.

  • LisaB

    He has a point. He's living the life of an ULR and telling us what's it like up there.
    If you have the OCET or the PD funds, then yeah, pay your own ride.
    But Boyd is new here, he's not completely set up. And he has taken a huge financial blow this year to do this.
    Also, you have to remember that the coaches do not come to the students here. They do everywhere else in the world - sigh...
    I think he also has a another very valid point. Riders who haven't even done a *** are getting funds. I think he's right. I think the developing riders should be folks who are currently doing advanced ht and need an extra push by training with the big guns. Not prelim and int. riders. We just don't have the budget for that. Let the areas deal with that and the yr's.
    I think we need to tighten our belts for now in that respect.
    I do want to point out that we do have horses here. But we, the schmoes of the world do not have the funds to send said horse to said rider. That's what happens more often than not. It's incredibly expensive to send a horse to a pro and compete them.

  • VicariousRider

    I can see why Boyd's views are not popular, but I really applaud him for being honest about how he feels. I think that it's easy to assume that those riders who have made it to that level are financially stable and it is important to hear what he has to say. I hope that he doesn't get lambasted for being honest because all that does is encourage less honesty and dialogue. I don't know what the answer is, but I am glad that Boyd had the courage to share his point of view.

    Regarding the REST of his post: I thought he was INCREDIBLY patriotic, grateful and humble. This is a man who will do whatever it takes to be the best rider that he can be and THAT is the type of person that should be on a national team, IMO.

  • bcd

    I understand where Boyd is coming from. He is not saying that these developing riders should not be given money. He doesn't think they need to go to different countries for a 3* when there are plenty here. When these riders are more experienced at the level, then it makes more sense to send them to different countries and spend more money.

  • Carol

    Thank You Boyd for being honest. You are totally 100% correct.

    Trips overseas accompanied by an entourage of coaches, managers and selectors, which adds up to a lot of money. Hello - save the money and send these horses to Fairhill. Has anyone discussed the ECONOMY - it is called saving money - budgeting.

  • breeding

    After watching every single dressage ride at the WEGS, a big topic should be the quality of horses we are putting under our riders...Th Europeans are so far ahead of us in that area that we should be trying to encourage breeders in this country to go for the crosses with the uphill, elastic builds, lots of TB but with movement. No one was consistently as well mounted as the Brits-the English TB is as competitive as any WB because they are working on those specific qualities that produce a supple, brave, good moving, fast, calm horse. Think if we had started from a better place in the dressage, we would have a medal right now. Comet, Neville-they are wonderful OTTB with heart,stamina, movement but they are as rare as pearls in an oyster. We need breeders who love the sport to find the formula to produce these animals and then put them under the up and coming riders and the old pro's. Maybe the USEF should have some endowment for research in this area and possible purchasing power for talented horses in the future, able then to funnel them to the top riders.

  • Diane

    Boyd's got a point - he wants more money. But, at the end of the day, I would too. I'd like my clients to pay me more everyday and to have more clients, but the difference is, I'm not asking for a hand-out. In my business, I have to go out and get clients and keep them happy and pay the bills to achieve my goals. If I don't keep them happy, if I don't meet their needs, than I don't keep their business and I make less money.

    Apparently, however, Boyd and the short-listed riders don't think this rule applies to them. They want us all to finance their dreams, without putting any skin in the game themselves: they want us to give them a free check to meet their goals. Like we should all be honored to support their greatness - or give them money just because they have a red jacket or can win the dressage or have a dream. That type of selfish, self-important behavior is emblemic of the failings of this generation of advanced and team riders.

  • Jessica H

    I agree with Boyd. We should be spending that money instead on our talented rider's and horse's EDUCATION. Give them grants to train with the best so they can WIN the events we have here. Then spend the money to send them overseas and take a chance on them at the Pan Am games. We'll have more faith in them knowing that they grew up in our program and we'll know their horses more intimately and for longer before we put them on a team.

  • JoiseyGirl

    I don't know enough about eventing's upper levels to have an opinion about who should get which funds to do what, although Boyd's argument makes sense to me. I'm just chiming in to say that his blog post today is wonderful reading, and I'm thrilled he's representing the U.S. He's enthusiastic, humble, and gracious... and his tribute to his $800 horse is quite touching!

  • Jeanne

    We should keep spending the money to run these upper level horses into the ground? So that they each can do 3-4 4* competitions every year? The nice thing about old time, long format horsemanship is that it was cheaper, too.

  • lec

    I would not send a first timer to Boekelo. The competition is always really hot and I am not sure what will be gained from 20pens or not being established enough in the dressage. I agree that the US needs more international exposure but the combinations should be more proven. The UK would not dream of sending unproven combinations to Kentucky. There needs to be value for money and the combinations should be there to win it not fact find and gain a new experience.

  • Gin

    Boyd makes some very solid points.

    But, he has a boat load more international experience than your typical American rider because he is Australian. He has competed in different countries and known a different system that most up and coming American riders do not.

    I think it is just as much about getting the rider international experience as it is the horse. It is nice that those riders can have the pressure of performing on the team without it being a team situation.

  • subk

    I don't get the sense that Boyd is complaining about the money as much as making the point that most people don't consider. These guys pay their rent and their light bill from an income of riding horses and teaching. When the Team comes calling they must put their source of income on hold. How many of you could go without a paycheck for a couple months without it being significant to your financial well being?

    I think it's reasonable to be sensitive to that.

  • Laura

    Boyd makes some good points and I can certainly see both sides of the argument. I don't think a first timer should ever be sent overseas. Prove yourself on your home turf and then go overseas to see what you're going to be up against when you put on the team jacket and ride for your country.

    I do however think that our North American riders should get international exposure before ever being asked to do so in a red coat. How else are they going to learn to deal with pressure of international competition at a foreign venue? When a medal for your country is on the line is not the time to be introduced to that pressure. If you only invest in the 'here and now' riders and horses then you have nothing in the pipeline. There has to be a happy medium.

    I come from Canada though where full funding for ANY riders to overseas competitions would be amazing. And contradictory to my argument above, I don't think Steph R-B had any problems coming through in the clutch at the biggest international competition there is in Eventing.

  • pardon my rant

    I agree with Diane! While I understand the sacrifices made to achieve the goal (i.e. a month in GA, away from giving lessons and selling horses), is it not an investment? Will Boyd not be able to fill more clinics, acquire more students, obtain more sponsorship, and charge more for a horse he’s brought along now that he can add 10th place as an individual at the WEGs to his CV? Of course he will. The rest of us finance our educations with the hope of earning a better living. Is Boyd suggesting that equestrians should somehow be granted special privileges and treatment for their chosen careers? Perhaps when Boyd became a US citizen and adopted many of our customs, he too readily embraced the entitlement that plagues our society.
    Boyd, you rode brilliantly and I’m proud you did so as a fellow American. While, you have some valid points on your blog, I ask you please consider more carefully your position on the entitlements you seek.

  • Elaine

    I thought it was a great post and very thought-provoking. I apreciate his willingness to be honest about his feelings on WEG and the process.

    He seems really apreciative of that intensive training period and what it did for his ability to perform competitively at WEG. And he seems to feel that level of intensity was necessary to produce a top class performance, but he's letting us in on what the opportunity cost to setting aside that much time for a WEG run is for people who are not independently wealthy.

    There is a limited pool of USEF money available for pursuing team goals and there's bound to be disputes on how to allocate it. How beneficial is a trip abroad for a 3 star? At what point in a horse/rider career is it appropriate for the US to fund such a trip? From a future team perspective, is it worth the cost? Are there better ways to spend the money? These are all good questions. As is the question of financial toll on those with team aspirations who are not loaded. Perhaps more funding to the top riders could in effect increase the number of potential team hopefuls because it wouldn't require so much money for a run.

  • education

    I agree with pardon my rant. Aren't WEGs, the Olympics etc part of a rider's education? And won't those experiences lead to more students, more clinics, the opportunity to attract sponsors, etc?

    I view those sacrifices as a tuition of sorts.

  • Sue

    I was looking at the entries for Fair Hill (one of my former horses is doing the **, and it amazed me that the entry fee with stabling was $800 (not including a tack stall, preferred parking, USEA and USAE fees, hotel, meals and other sundries).
    Heck - even if I had the horse flesh, skills, and desires to run with the big boys, I would need a grant just to compete here!
    When did UL eventing get so expensive? This may be another reason that our pool of talent is not as large. I know that this no way compares the the big H/J shows, but it still boggles my mind.

  • LisaB

    And don't forget Sue about all the qualifications to get there now. Then there's all the vet bills and such ...
    I think it was Bonnie Mosser that put a price tag on getting to Badminton or Burghley. Just to get there and compete it was 35k.
    And so true about return on investment. Good point!
    I'm thinking he's like when right after Christmas, we start getting the bills and sigh heavily...

  • clb

    "What do you think is the most effective way to use money to develop riders in the US?" Succession. Planning.
    Succession planning is defined as: the enabling of your organization to identify talented employees and provide education to develop them for future higher level and broader responsibilities.
    Interesting No?!
    Step 1
    The identification (of the riders on the verge of greatness, ‘Talent Pool’), development (support financially and by providing opportunities) and REPLACEMENT (out with the old, in with the new) of key leaders (Eventing Royalty). Note- the replacement part is gradual, NOT all at once. However, Replacement is also Reality.
    Step 2
    Provision of learning and development opportunities to accelerate growth and experience to the identified Talent Pool. While there should be a common goal (hitting the podium) EVERY RIDER/HORSE is different and what works for one combination will NOT work for the next.
    Step 3
    Generation of a program to manage the identified Talent Pool EFFICIENTLY – how do you do this? By coming to an agreed upon goal (Hitting the podium in 2012 perhaps?) and implementing a plan on to make it happen (send the Talent Pool to the PanAms maybe?). Why reinvent the wheel when there is so much to learn from Nations who have experienced continual success?!
    Step 4
    Make it happen.
    “You want to get to Boekelo in 2011 with funding so your shot at London 2012 is more realistic? Okay, person who has been identified within our Talent Pool, you need to do ‘whatever the predetermined criteria is that has been developed to ensure our above mentioned common goal is reached’ and we will gladly help fund your way there.
    In business, there are a lot of talkers and not a lot of do-ers..I find this scenario much the same...a lot of people have a lot of great ideas...so, someone has to literally take the reins and drive the change forward....whose responsibility is that? You tell me. The hard part about succession planning is making people understand the value of spending the cash up front (to develop the plan) while the future is unknown...especially when it comes to horses, because they ARE unknowns.….Of course, once positive results start happening, people forget about how much it cost to get there in the first place.
    My two cents for what it is worth...

  • HAM

    As a brilliant farrier once told me...they don't called it the sport of kings because you get to wear a crown!

  • Ziggy

    Re Boyd's comments: Nothing like being grateful when the system just helped you achieve your dream. Sometimes I think these riders think they are saving lives, or bringing us all world peace. Seriously: thanks in part to the support of many people, you participate in the elite levels of a sport that most people in the world can't even afford to dabble in. Get over yourselves.

  • andrea

    clb has some brilliant ideas there.

    I personally want to see a portion, just a portion, of all funding pushed more to the bottom grass roots levels.
    We need to help out the higher level riders and I totally agree. The group I work with tries to donate free entries for raffle fundraiser that riders in our area do but we dont support till they get to the intermediate and *rd levels.
    My big worry is growing the talent pool at the bottom. Getting more people interested in the sport. more riders brings the costs down and more riders means more membership fees for the US eventing body and the CAN eventing body that in the end get funneled back to our higher level riders.
    More lower level riders means more students that need to be coached - therefor creating money for our higher riders that need it.
    Eventing is expensive. No doubt about it. The cost of entries is high. And it is because of very little funding support from the governing bodies - mostly because they dont have any to give to the organizers when we need it the most.
    And we are loosing XC courses all to often - these are training grounds that all levels need. If there are no courses there is no eventing.

    a lot of people on here have had some brilliant ideas. I do agree that we should not create too many new ones and instead study other countries a bit more to see how they made it work. LEC on here can give us tons of insight on the Brit end of that.

    I just would personally like to see more help at the lower levels - concentrating Training and Prelim. Once people have reached that level the bug has set in and 50% of them dream of getting higher and going bigger. Showing them the path and guiding them on that path - teaching them how to raise money, get sponsors, and find horses. Education is huge. You dont need to be sitting on a horse to learn tons about this sport. Lets not sit on our butts in the winter - lets learn how to grow.

    If you strengthen the Train and Prelim levels then the money will trickle out to the organizers who make this whole sport happen and the rest to the YR and the big guys who give us dreams to see.

    Just my rambling thoughts on this when I am supposed to be working. lalalala

  • Ziggy

    He also says that there should be a system to support riders that finish in the top at championships year after year. Why? So your income can be subsidized while you keep on living the dream year after year when there are plenty of other talented people out there with dreams, too? I think he possibly is coming to the rude awakening that international sports aren't subsidized for the glory of the government in the U.S. to the extent they are in many countries. I love to see the best in the world in action, it is amazing and inspiring, but the vast majority of Americans really don't care who wins at the WEG. The vast majority of them barely notice it's happening in their own backyard. And maybe they kinda care about the Olympics, but probably not the equestrian part of it. I think most Americans would view elite riders as overpriviledged people in a rich person's sport. Of course it's great for the home country to win, but most nations have way bigger fish to fry than who rode the hell out of the water complex at WEG. And I just don't see the average eventer supporting a systemic aristocracy by giving more $ when a whole lot of us have been witness/subject to unbecoming behavior by several of the special people at the top, even the ones still on the way there. No one is perfect, of course, but if half of you are God's gift, then surely the money trees will be plentiful for you somehow. Apologies for my rant; some of those statements were the just the proverbial straw for me.

  • cbd

    they are giving the grants to the right group of riders. they have made it a long way but are not quite over the hump. But they never calculate on a need basis, some of the riders that they give the grants to come from the richest families in the country. what is gained by giving $5,000 to someone who already has 7 or 8 figures of financial backing?

  • bellyaching

    After reading Boyd's blog I can only say what is wrong with everyone out there? This man just rode his heart out for YOU and you interpret his opinion in the worst possible way. You have an opinion, why shouldn't the top riders have opinions? He has just experienced the whole machine that gets our event riders to the WEGs or to the Olympics, who better to have an educated comment than him? I am ashamed of the negativity and unkindness that has been posted these last few days here on EN. What happened to the Eventing community that is supposed to be non-elitist, non-judgemental. And, for goodness sake, if you are out there riding Training level and making comments about our hard working, top riders think about how silly you are sounding.

  • Amy

    belly- he didn't do a damn thing for me. Frankly, Boyd could care less about me: in his world, I'm not even worth saying hello to, unless I'd subsidize his income. Never mind that I volunteer my time to jump judge, to work at WEG, to announce small shows, to help out USEA - all so he can make a living. But Boyd and his fellow PRO riders can't be bothered to even say hello to a smurf like me. God forbid he actually volunteer sometime. At the USEA convention this year, let's just watch all of the PRO riders hanging out in their little group - like we should be honored to be able to be in the same room with them. Thanks, but I'll take the Area VII adult riders any day. At least they understand that the sport is supposed to be about everyone in it - not just those who don't have day jobs (and as for riding at Training level, Monday-Friday I am also an investment banker. So under your theory, it's equally "silly" for the upper level riders to be making comments about how hard it is to make ends meet).

    The judgmental stuff started the day the PROs all decided that we weren't worthy of their sport and when the Capt. decided we were all "smurfs". They believed that we should have separate events from them, and separate warm up rings. And now Boyd thinks we should pay for his dream, too. Thanks, but I have horses of my own to feed.

  • KAS

    You couldn't be more wrong, and I'm so sorry that you have this view of Boyd (I can't speak to other PRO riders). I don't know how this image of him as being not nice, jerky, whatever, has happened (maybe from Snoopy's post about him on COTH--BTW, Snoopy as usual stirred the pot and then backed WAY away after the vitriole ensued), but Boyd is a gem and a gentleman and such a really nice guy.

    John, I would love you to ask Boyd to respond to the insanity on COTH about his blog post.

  • LisaB

    I agree with KAS, Amy. I'm so sad that you feel that way.
    At least around here, I can chat up just about anyone at an event, ask any question, give anyone a beer. - BTW, I'm in VA and live a stone's throw from Bonnie Mosser, Will Coleman, Emily Beshear, Kim S ...
    Boyd cares. And Boyd is as patriotic and giving to the community as they come.
    I can tell you stories of ULR's with multiple things they have to do at an event, go help some stranger that's in trouble.
    DO NOT PUT THE PRO'S IN WITH CMP!!!!
    I don't know 1 pro that would ever call us Smurfs - they call us Meal Ticket and they know it.

  • Retreadeventer

    He's talking about prize money, I think. Prize money is the flour in the cake, the black in the coffee, the sugar in the tea, the hyperbaric chamber after the clipper fight....

  • bail-out

    To Amy-How nice to be an investment banker-first your profession puts the whole American economy in the ditch and then we bail you out. Boyd was saying instead of sending young riders to Europe at an ungodly cost put more money into the three stars here in this country and let them get good here at a lesser cost. Admit it, your anger issues go farther than your twisting what Boyd had to say.

  • Laurie

    Why not send riders to the new 3* at Galway. No one will have ridden it before. Why send riders to Europe. Before they have experienced the new event?

  • Ziggy

    To Bail-out: I am also in Area VII, and we had a little company here called Washington Mutual that went belly-up. No bail out for them. Thousands of people out of jobs, and thousands of square footage of commercial real estate empty. My company has been able to help pick up the pieces a little, since we've actually been able to hire, and the several WaMu operations people we've brought on are good people who loved their jobs and had nothing to do with running the co. into the ground. This is not really a related topic, but let's put things in perspective here. Some of those people are still unemployed, and it's been YEARS. People competing at the WEG should be grateful for what they've got, and maybe step back before sticking their hand out as soon as the last championships are over.

  • Brach

    I agree, the US does not need to invest thousands of dollars in devloping riders to go to Europe.
    Especially riders who have not completed a CCl*** at home!
    Assist a larger group of them to get to the best 3 *'s this country has to offer!!
    Canada proved last week one doesnt have to have been to Europe to compete and be successful on the International stage
    What you do need is some great horses and determined riders who buy into a system and work VERY hard to get there.
    Only one of the horses on that Silver medal team is supported by owners other than the rider and his/her own family. The Canadian program has been severly under funded for many years

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